Victoria Gravesande: The Case for Feminism, POC Activism and Body Neutrality (An Interview)
While reviewing the cultural and political changes that have been brewing since the 1960s, there’s one significant goal that we still collectively need to keep pushing towards, and it’s not how to set a Caesar salad in gelatin, or how to successfully bring back Go-Go boots (though these things are also important)—it’s the consistent and concentrated effort to acknowledge and uplift women in their efforts to further the feminist cause.
Though the methods of promoting feminism may be different than their original pre-internet heyday, activist and social media influencer Victoria Gravesande is the perfect candidate to discuss what it means to be a woman within the modern world. After discovering success in various creative pursuits, including a highly successful venture into art and poetry, Gravesande quickly realised one of her most prominent passions was to utilise her social media platforms to further various feminist conversations. It wasn’t long before these candid discussions and unique perspectives garnered her an engaged advocate following, and Gravesande soon entered the ranks of influential activism.
Nowadays, she helps educate her almost 45k TikTok followers about various pressing topics for women, including body neutrality, the gender household labour gap, and performative gender in relation to the patriarchy. Editor Caitlin Andrews had the pleasure of interviewing Victoria about what it means to be a feminist in the twenty-first century, and how you (yes, you!) can get involved in the feminist cause.
Caitlin Andrews: Hey Victoria, nice to meet you! How are you doing?
Victoria Gravesande: “Hi Caitlin, thank you so much for having me. I’m really excited to do this interview with you! I’m doing great, just keeping busy with work and some freelance stuff.”
CA: Can you tell us a little bit about how you got into political activism? Did you have any key experiences in childhood or adolescence that initiated your desire to get involved in the pursuit of social justice?
VG: “Like a lot of people of colour who grow up in mostly white towns, activism kind of finds you. My town is actually the former hate-crime capital of Canada, and when I first started school, I was probably one of five people of colour in my grade. I felt really “othered” as soon as I started kindergarten. My teachers tested my English comprehension to see if I needed English as a Second Language (ESL) assistance, even though I was born in Canada, primarily speak English, and was the only kindergartener who could read going into the class. I got told my food smelled weird. I also was a really social kid but no one really wanted to be my friend and I couldn’t figure out why. Groups of white kids came up to me during recess and sang “Chinese, Japanese, dirty knees, money please!” while pulling their eyes back to make them slanted, and I never said anything, because it never clicked to me that I was experiencing racism. And I have nothing bad to say about my classmates - they were just kids too, and they were imitating the adults in their life, but it made “little me” wish I was white. I wished I had cold-cut sandwiches for lunch, and wide blue eyes on a white face.
I heard the term “feminist” as a child but it was always out of context, and I just assumed that it meant someone who thinks women are better than men. I was 13 years old when The Hunger Games movie came out and that was followed by Divergent, The Fifth Wave, and all the other dystopian fiction led by female characters who did “masculine” things. I wanted to be like that. I wanted to be an extraordinary female protagonist who was not like the other girls. I remember overhearing somebody ask “What’s wrong with being like the other girls?” and something just clicked. I spent so much of my childhood self-loathing and wishing I was something different, and in that moment, I realized that there was a possibility for me to actually like myself.
I started engaging with activism when I got to high school and met other students of colour who had similar experiences. I was bold too; I called out my teachers for treating students of colour differently, I questioned out loud why boys could get away with things that the girls couldn’t, I was even on Twitter and Tumblr arguing with right-wingers (though I do NOT recommend it). And then in 2013, on Beyonce’s self-titled album, she said: “Feminist: a person who believes in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes,” and I said “Yup. That’s me!”
CA: What wave, generation or “brand” of feminism do you most commonly advocate for (if any)? What are the key ideologies that originally encouraged you to support that specific form of feminism?
VG: “I don’t particularly advocate for a specific wave of feminism, but I would classify my beliefs as an intersectional, post-third wave neo-feminism. I try to make a point to be academic and critical in my approach to the topics I cover, but at the end of the day I want to be accessible and relatable. Most people don’t have the luxury to think so much about the structures of our society, and an “everyday” approach to feminism is key to creating change. If I can help women choose partnerships and relationships where they demand to be treated fairly and humanely, then we’re already helping the next generation of women become stronger and smarter. I’m also heavily influenced by bell hooks. Her book “All About Love: New Visions” changed the way I approach and appeal to people - she says early on in the book that everyone fears being loveless, and I think that’s something I keep in mind when I talk about any topic. We are very much driven by fear, and I think women and women of colour can relate to this fear on a deeper level than other people.”
CA: As an Asian woman specifically, what do you perceive to be the strengths and weaknesses of the modern day feminist movement? How do you feel about the usage of “womanist,” a term coined by predominantly black feminists to avoid associations with white-centric feminism?
VG: “As an Asian woman, the strength I see in today’s feminist movement has to do with the freedom of information. Social media and the internet are such an integral part of moving ideas around and learning, and it’s so beautiful to be able to connect with women around the world and find things we have in common, while creating safe spaces for us to have discourse and to laugh and to engage. An obvious weakness would be the presence of anti-Blackness in feminist movements, and also people who don’t understand that wealth and capitalism are patriarchal and that we don’t have to subscribe to those ideals to be empowered.
In terms of womanism, Black women created the feminism that we enjoy today; they were on the front-lines of the Civil Rights movement that gave us the bones of equality that we have now built upon over a few generations. Black women were always the ones to spearhead movements, and every non-Black person has benefited from their sacrifices. There is a whole world of intersections that I don’t experience and therefore cannot fully understand when it comes to being a Black woman, so I do see the need for a Black-exclusionary brand of feminism. I understand that as a non-Black person talking about feminism on TikTok, my success comes from the fact that people don’t find me “threatening” or “intimidating” – labels that get attached to Black women creators too often. I think closed spaces are necessary.”
CA: What do you think is the most tangible feminist development in your lifetime? How do you perceive yourself to have directly contributed to feminism as a cause?
VG: “I was asked to perform poetry for the Womxn’s Center at my school during Sexual Assault Awareness Week and I think that was one of the moments in my life where I realized I could help other people in a small way. It’s a haunting feeling to write about things so personal and private and then have people tell you that it’s relatable and so close to their own experiences. It’s heart-breaking. I had so many women reach out to me afterwards and tell me that I put their darkest feelings and fears into words; I may not have had the solutions to the problems we shared, but I knew I didn’t feel so alone anymore.
When I approach feminist issues, I am aware that everyone is driven by a fear of being loveless and unworthy, and I knowthat people feel empowered when they feel like they’re not alone and that they’re being heard. My contributions tofeminism are to remind women that we’re not alone and that our fears are valid, and we have the power to change thingsabout how we love, how we seek partners, and how we move in this world. Obviously at the poetry event there weremaybe a couple of hundred people there, but on TikTok my audience is much larger and I want to provide that samefeeling to everyone I interact with – that reminder that we’re not here alone, and feminism isn’t just about grand gestureswritten into law, it’s an everyday effort that can help make our lives better.”
CA: One of your most self-described “controversial feminist opinions” is that men are also victims to the patriarchy; do you agree or disagree with the notion that discussing the negative consequences of patriarchal values on men is in part a patriarchal act, because it prioritises the feelings of oppressive groups? How much space do you think modern feminism should offer for the discussion of men’s issues?
VG: “I think it is so important to demonstrate to men that the patriarchy is something that harms them more than it helps them. At the end of the day, the patriarchy suppresses everyone’s humanity in different ways and I do think men need to be made aware of this, but I am never going to be the person to do that work. As a woman of colour, as a feminist, as a creator, everything I produce is for a woman audience: my goal is to create safe spaces for women. I don’t necessarily think that discussing the negative consequences of patriarchal values on men is an act of patriarchy in itself, but it’s not right to ask women to constantly have to educate men. It’s the same way we can’t keep asking Black creators how to be less racist. There is certainly a need for these topics to be addressed, but the responsibility is not on my shoulders. It’s simply not my calling to dedicate my work to helping men be better.”
CA: Can you explain your preference for the notion of “body neutrality” and how it would dif er from the more frequently referenced “body positivity,” in the context of helping women and girls’widespread problems with self image? What are the key factors that make fatphobia and feminism an intersecting issue?
VG: “Body neutrality and body positivity are kind of tricky for me to talk about. I’m in an extremely privileged position to speak on these issues because I don’t have a body that gets examined and picked apart to the extremes that bigger people experience. However, I do think we need more body neutrality because our hyper-visible, social media culture thrives on aesthetics and the look of things, and people shouldn’t have to be beautiful to matter. Yes - I agree that all bodies are beautiful, but it’s not because of something physical. Your body is beautiful because it carries your soul, your heart, and your mind. It brings you places. It’s been with you every step of your journey. It has held, and been held, by the people you love. Bodies are people’s permanent homes on this earth and when you see things that way, you realize that it’s so inappropriate to say anything about other people’s bodies.
This intersects perfectly with feminism because women’s bodies in particular are always open to public opinion and are treated like public property. When you try to police women’s bodies by telling them they’re too big to exist, that they shouldn’t exist past a certain weight, it’s so incredibly misogynistic. It reinforces the idea that women should be “seen and not heard.” People get so offended by women who don’t bend into the patriarchal ideals of what a woman should be, and that is the voice behind fatphobia. It’s also incredibly racist because the ideas behind “what a woman should look like” are rooted in whiteness as well. A huge part of feminism is the search for autonomy and I believe that can be achieved - in part - by body neutrality.”
CA: As both a strident feminist and a content writer for a faith-based charity organisation, how would you respond to the claim that religion (with an emphasis on Christianity in particular) is inherently misogynistic? Does your perception change when you hear the public outcries against misogyny in the Church, through social media movements like #ThingsOnlyChristianWomenHear?
VG: “I was born and raised Catholic and, though I am constantly questioning my faith and the role I want it to play in my life, I still believe in a God. I did my research and asked my questions prior to working for the organization I am currently employed with, and I am satisfied with their mandates and how they practice Christianity. The organization may be Christian-based in their mission but it is considered a secular and non-denominational charity. (We support people who experience disabilities and our mandate is to create communities of belonging where people have independence, relationships, and self-determination.) They don’t preach, they don’t evangelize. They believe in women’s healthcare and human rights and support loving who you love.
However, I still believe that most religions are misogynistic. They were created by people who didn’t believe women were human and they were created in times where women were not given power. The faith I was raised in (Catholicism) doesn’t allow women leaders, and women are not a part of the decision-making on topics like families, marriages, and abortions. As someone who has grown up very active in the Church, I can tell you first-hand how racist and misogynistic it is, and at the same time, I can tell you how church and faith-based holidays have made my family stronger and closer together. As I get older, I can appreciate the coexistence of these things. Faith can be destructive, toxic, and a harbour for a lot of generational evil in this world, and at the same time, be life-saving and life-changing for so many people because it gives them a reason greater than themselves to exist. None of these things cancels the other one out - they simply exist at the same time. I don’t think I will ever become a champion of my (changing and growing) faith, but I am at peace knowing that the organization I work for is doing good things in communities. I think my faith and my stance on religion will age with me – I’m open to growth and evolution and I am always, always learning.”
CA: One of your most popular TikToks discusses the unequal division of labour amongst households, with many obligations (including, as a result of 20th century feminism, careers) falling on the shoulders of women. What do you think would be most ef ective in reducing this inequality? Do you believe systemic interpersonal inequality should be regulated by the government?
VG: ““Ask a man to describe his perfect wife and then listen to him describe a slave” – I’ve heard that phrase a lot on the internet and in feminist groups, and it is chilling. So many people don’t view marriage as a mutually beneficial partnership and, because of that, the roles for men and women in marriages are so unequal. I think we can start to reduce this inequality by recognizing the humanity of men and women and by giving women more credit. It’s integral that we understand women to be as complex and as flawed as our male counterparts, and it’s important that we are able to value men as emotional beings.
There are so many TikToks where women ask their husbands vital information about their children and so many of the fathers just don’t know their kids’ birthdays or their allergies, simple things like that. The bar is so incredibly low for men that it’s hard to date and envision a happy marriage where you, as a woman, are treated as a true equal. The solution is for men to take on more of the burdens of managing a home and a family, and the solution is for women to put their lives and their happiness first, because marriage wasn’t made to make us happy, but we can make marriages that work. In this economy, it’s not affordable to be a single-income household and that makes marriage and life-partnerships very desirable and almost a necessity (Capitalism enforces patriarchy!) Teaching women that they are worthy of good relationships is a part of the solution, but of course that is easier said than done. I believe in less government regulation for relationships and I’m not even sure what that could look like. I think this is very much a culture thing that we need to address and work towards. Women should not have to sacrifice every aspect oftheir lives to make marriages work.”
CA: Which feminist figures have inspired you to become who you are? Who, throughout the history of feminism and female empowerment, do you believe deserves more credit?
VG: “My contemporary inspirations are bell hooks and Roxane Gay. I’ve read a lot of their work, particularly all about love by bell hooks and Hunger by Roxane Gay, and those works made me a better person; they’re the kinds of books you read that make you uncomfortable because of how honest and self-critical you have to be. I think both of those writers and feminists deserve more credit. It’s hard for me to resonate with feminists of the past though, because hindsight is in fact 20/20, and a lot of prominent white feminists were very passionate about segregation and eugenics, as an example.”
CA: For women or feminist allies who are unsure of where to begin in terms of helping the cause, do you have anyresources you’d recommend as a starting place? (E.g. books, feminist figures, studies, documentaries etc). How shouldwomen get involved?
VG: “I think more everyday feminism is needed. For me, when I was starting out as a feminist, I caught myself criticizing women for things I would never call a man out for; I realized that I had an internal bias to doubt women and their capabilities (including my personal potential). The key to feminism as a practice is to listen to women and give voice to the people who need it most. Sometimes the best we can do as allies is to listen and believe women.
Again, some books that I recommend for sure are All About Love by bell hooks, Hunger by Roxane Gay, and The Beauty Myth by Naomi Wolf (she is an anti-vaxxer now and I do not agree with all of her views, but again, as I get older, I am appreciating the coexistence of things, and this work by her opened my eyes to the world where women are made to feel worthless). I love Greta Gerwig’s Little Women, particularly the line that says, “Just because my dreams are different than yours, doesn’t mean they are unimportant.” That quote reminds me every single day that women in power does not instantly equate a woman empowered. Power and autonomy doesn’t have to be defined in the way that men define power.
And also, TikTok. I think TikTok is a great place to dive into nuanced topics and see everyday women experiencing everyday things. The discussion and the community that I have seen on TikTok reminds me that behind these grand ideas and theories, there are women working and living everyday who need feminism. TikTok is not the end point of these discussions, but it’s a wonderful place to start.”
CA: Where can Periphery’s readers find you?
VG: “I am on TikTok at @victoriagravesande, and I am also on Instagram at @victoriagravesande, though I am much cooler on @byvicgravesande where I post art, photography, and poetry.”
Periphery Magazine thanks Victoria Gravesande for her contribution, and wishes her luck promoting the feminist cause! You can find her on social media here:
Personal Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/victoriagravesande/
Poetry and Photography Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/byvicgravesande/